PNG carbon trader joins forces with Aust technolgy group

By Ilya Gridneff

PORT MORESBY, March 2 AAP – ASX-listed m2m Corporation Ltd has dropped a $10 million merger with Carbon Planet and gone into business with a man accused of running a carbon “cargo cult” in Papua New Guinea. 

Former disqualified Australian horse trainer and Philippine cock-fighting syndicate operator Kirk Roberts, and his company Nupan, is now working fortechnology investment group m2m to develop carbon trading projects in PNG. 

At a volatile meeting between PNG government and forest landowners on Monday Mr Roberts, who is also under investigation by the PNG’s Forest Authority (FA),was accused by PNG’s Forest Minister Beldan Namah of promoting a carbon “cargo cult”. 

But Mr Roberts, who received $1.1 million from Adelaide-based Carbon Planet in 2008, shrugs off widespread criticisms and is adamant he represents numerous PNG landowner groups who want lucrative carbon projects developed under a voluntary system. 

PNG authorities are worried Mr Roberts is undermining existing forestry laws, possibly misleading landowners in remote areas all while exploiting PNG’svacuum of national legislation and policy covering carbon trading where companies can offset emissions by supporting forest growth. 

East Pangia, in PNG’s rugged Southern Highlands region, is the latest carbon battle ground as Mr Roberts promises what many PNG villagers call ‘sky money’because he appears to be selling air. 

At Monday’s meeting with divided Pangia landowner groups some argued for Nupan’s carbon trading, some argued for logging while a raft of governmentofficials and ministers criticised Mr Roberts’ carbon scheme. 

PNG’s FA managing director Kanawi Pouru last month took out a newspaper advertisement outlining an investigation into Mr Roberts while remindinglandowners Pangia had been allocated for logging since 2002. 

In July 2009 m2m announced a merger as a way for a back-door listing for Carbon Planet but the deal fell through in January this year, a month after m2mannounced that Mr Roberts’ Nupan would become their “rainforest developer”. 

“It is very important for shareholders to note m2m’s existing carbon credit business will not be affected by the Carbon Planet transaction not proceeding,”an m2m statement said. 

Nupan will generate about 10 million scientifically approved and verified carbon credits from 15 forestry projects in PNG over the first half of 2010,m2m said.   “Completion will allow m2m to recognise about $1 million in revenue in the first quarter of next year (2010). Further trading from the 15 projects isanticipated to deliver in excess of $4 million revenue by December 2010 and positive earnings,” another statement said. 

Ian Clarkson, m2m executive chairman, told AAP he would call back with a response but did not.   Paul Barker director of PNG’s think tank Institute of National Affairs said PNG does not need any more carbon trade scandals. 

“One would like options for the landowners other than logging operations, which have ruled the roost for years with many bad results,” he said. 

Mr Roberts is linked to last year’s sacking of a top PNG climate change official and is tied to an ongoing government investigation of PNG’s nowdefunct Office of Climate Change. 

Carbon Planet has replaced former CEO Jim Johnson with Dr Ross Williams while executive director Dave Sag declined to comment on recent developments”due to the confidentiality clauses that persist in our contracts”. 

m2m’s current market capitalisation is about $6.7 million and its shares last traded at 0.3 of a cent.

Source AAP

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58 thoughts on “PNG carbon trader joins forces with Aust technolgy group

  1. There are similar stories like this especially with companies that are listed on the stock exchange and usually their agenda is to try to raise more capital by publishing stories to heighten trading values of their stock, enticing more people into investing in their ventures.

    Carbon Planet may have withdrawn support because Nupan’s dealings are fishy. M2M is willing to take the risk, just my own logical reasoning.

  2. Kafu Peg,
    If you would like to visit http://www.carbonowontok.org you will find the discontinue letter served to Carbon Planet by Nupan.
    The reasons are confidential as you would understand.

    I am told to say that the Confidential and Private way that the Nupan business is managed does not make it ‘fishy’ because that smells like a middle finger, and we do wish if you could get ever your facts right.

  3. Mr Greenie Cap has also chosen to post comments of Keith Jackson’s blog ‘PNG Attitude’. Here is a response to him that has just been posted on Keith’s site:

    I’m amazed that Mr Geenie Cap and his stated mate Tim, can’t see the logic of what is being discussed? PNG people have been misled by false claims of get rich quick schemes since they became aware that there were better material goods than they could locally produce. That is nothing new to people in general as the original South Seas Bubble demonstrates. Charlatans exist in every community. If Kirk Roberts has a legitimate and properly set up business that will demonstrably benefit PNG forest owners, he should come clean and present the details. That would effectively provide credibility to his operations and silence his critics. That he chooses to hide behind a stated ‘Commercial in Confidence’ smokescreen only justifies the view that his scheme is of a dubious nature. When his sycophants then try to justify Robert’s bona fides with sarcasm and vitriol, they only succeed in shooting themselves in the foot.

    It’s about time that the PNG government legislated to protect their people and remove this loophole of opportunity. It’s also about time that people throughout the world woke up and actually looked at the merits of carbon trading. People need to start thinking about what they are being asked to accept and who will benefit and who will lose. Ignorance is no excuse if you have access to the available information. PNG forest owners may not have access to all the information about the carbon trading and may therefore be an easy target. The same should not be the case with Australians and yet look at the Qantas ‘green fares’ scheme that was recently exposed as a fraud. Where is the information about the ‘green levy on electricity for example?

    ‘Caveat emptor’ (Buyer beware) was never more important than it is with this subject.

  4. Kirk ‘greenie cap’ Roberts,

    We are sick of your grandstanding and tyre kicking. Why don’t you open up and be transparent for once?

    If you can not briefly describe your processes because you consider them your intellectual property, then we perfectly understand that. But as one blogger posted in another thread some time ago, what is wrong with naming your scientific, commercial and legal advisors to salvage whatever credibility you have left.

    The more you and your cohorts are trying to play hide and seek with us, the more you are jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    So there you go Kirk ‘greenie cap’ Roberts. Be transparent!

  5. Paul,
    legislate what ?
    Roberts asks you to view http://www.carbonowontok.org everything that happens with Nupan is mentioned on this website except fraudulent media incorrect statements.
    According to this weeks Hansard
    The Government is waiting to be part of 100 Billion in 3 years or 300 billion by 2020 through REDD God bless them.
    Baker and MacKenzie for the Australian government are coming to try and conjunct with PNG for their forests, are these the legisiated policies you are waiting for.
    The Nupan team revield that many people in the the project areas have not eaten properly for over 6 months and some saying they have not eaten rice for over a 12 months, skin diseases are to numerous to mention etc.
    The people have a perfect company to company argeement with Nupan and Nupan is performing.
    In time Roberts the Nupan scientists, econimist Tim and myself will arrange a public forum in POM when the first 2 projects are completed and delivered, to put you all to rest.
    And Paul what have all you tyre kickers every done other than exchange hot air with your bedroom blogging, pull your head in and let go of it.

    1. I’ll tell you what we’ve done mate. We have raised concerns that should have been effectively dealt with by anyone who was up front and genuine in their dealings with the local PNG landowners. We aren’t being unnecessarily negative but merely questioning how you intend to carry out what seems to be a one sided control of a plan that hopes to tap into a basket of money without any real guarantees that the PNG people will see their proper returns or that those supposed to be buying any of your credits won’t end up being conned.

      If, as you say, you are effectively able to preserve PNG forests and at the same time, give their owners a return for looking after them, then well done.

      What you haven’t yet done however is present anything more than unsubstantiated claims without any legislated or effective way of backing these claims up.

      You’re website is full of hype but distressingly devoid of real substance as to how you will preserve the forests you are setting out to claim as carbon credits.

      If those in the Australian government believe that your operation will help save the planet that’s one thing.

      If you are able to convince taxpayers through their government to fund you that’s another.

      The proof of the pudding will be a long term arrangement whereby PNG forest owners receive returns and how these will be fairly distributed.

      The final question, seeing as how your arrangements are all ‘in confidence’, is how much of any credits you, yourselves hang on to. Transparency is what’s missing in your whole setup.

      Since you are only prepared to criticise and denigrate others who raise their genuine concerns, you continually destroy your own credibility.

      Mipela ibin harim planti mauswara pastaim. Mipela les longen pinis ya.

  6. Paul you are correct in saying the proof in the pudding will be a long term arrangement whereby PNG forest owners receive returns and how these will be fairly distributed, the Community engagement of the Project components will be revieled in due course to settle all of your concerns.
    The Landowners have been in consultation regarding for 3 years and have asked to have their business to be kept commercial in confidence and private from the media.
    Money changes people and changes lives it takes a lot of self control to manage it properly, it also causes jealously , agnst from people or could cause robberies and serious crimes, the ILG’s have been consulted here on this issue and Roberts has been consulting the right people to manage this component.
    we will ignore the rest of your dribble Paul, but thank you for this accurate comment.

  7. hey greenie cap,
    it is good to see you answer questions which is a positive step to gaining support & momentum on your venture. Your strike back like a rattle snake makes people want to throw stones at you all the more.

    Giving more facts & opening up to the prying eyes to me is the better approach. Good luck.

  8. Forestry corruption continues?

    Amendment to violate court order

    By TODAGIA KELOLA

    A PROPOSED amendment to the Forestry Act which is currently before Parliament is likely to interfere with a Supreme Court order.
    And it has been deemed by many as interference by the legislature with the judiciary.
    The proposed amendment according to legal sources will result in Provincial Forest Management Committees serving no purposes while the National Forest Board will take over all their powers and functions.
    The amendment if passed will interfere with a recent Supreme Court decision in the case of Madang Timbers Ltd Vs National Forest Board SCM no 16 of 2008 handed in November 2009.
    The Supreme Court had ruled that the decision of the National Forest Board in not following the recommendations of Madang Provincial Forest Committee in awarding a timber permit to Timbers (PNG) Limited a subsidiary of Logging giant Ribunan Hijau instead of Madang Timbers Ltd was wrong.
    The highest court ordered that the decision of the National Forest Board to grant a timber permit to Timbers (PNG)should be quashed and that the recommendations of the PFMC be considered by the board.
    But to date the board has reportedly not complied with the Supreme Court order.
    Timbers (PNG) is still conducting logging in the area which is the Middle Ramu Forest Management Agreement, despite the order.
    The proposed amendment according to the legal source seeks to have the Forestry Act changed.
    And questions are being raised as to who is the real sponsor of the amendments whether it’s the National Forest Board, the Minister or other parties.

  9. Yesterday’s paper (the post courier), the forest minister has hinted that he will be taking the “carbon cowboy” to court over the issue of non-legislated business dealings in an uncharted commodity.

  10. The previous and present forest ministers are being investigated by the government watch dog… and will soon be asked questions they will not want to answer.

    In Nupans case if the Forest Minister tries to create a proceedings re ‘a non-legislated business dealings in an uncharted commodity’ then let him try, in fact it will help bring some important truths out to the public.
    It will also cripple or finish his political career or what is left of it. The Minister is on borrowed time as a Minister and his honeymoon is over with manipulating the resources and returns of Forest people.

    To add an audit on behalf of resource owners of previous ‘logged” areas of the recent and present Ministers is being constructed and put in place to find ”royalties” missing so far it could be around 300 million PK and counting.
    Also being explored is logged audits and export documentation during these said terms.
    The developer started Carbon Trading in PNG 2006 to 2007 he is the original license from OOCC and his company is the only IPA registed comany to originate and sell Carbon Credits in PNG.
    Forestry do not own any forests and are not structed to do ‘business’
    or are not legally authorised the distrubution of resource owners logging payments to the contray of the terms and conditions of the executed FMA’s.

  11. You are right to question the integrity of Forestry Ministers. Pruaitch has long been suspected of corruption and is rumoured to be involved with Kapris the (alleged) bank robber. Namah is also suspect and was involved in dubious property deals in Samoa.

    Last year Pruaitch was referred by he OC to the public prosecutor for corruption. What happened to this referral?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/png-treasurer-patrick-pruaitch-accused-of-corrupt-dealings/story-0-1225754949805

    Both Pruaitch and Namah criticized the media at the time and called them “terrorists” when the reports of their suspect deals were published.

    Also who is behind the millions secreted in a Singapore bank account from illegal skimming of logging export deals? And what has happened to THIS inquiry?

  12. All you should ask why the people of the ‘Western Province” have ‘no’ sevices , yet the pollution of water ways continues and increases with diseases , health, hunger , to the stage of total loss of moral.
    While the Governor keeps buying properties in POM and Brisbane at elavated valuations.

  13. The members, the bad things they do compared to good is so immense. So if the recent new of proposal to amend forest management act where provincial level management would be abolished. this is painting a clear picture now. Okay, how does PNG stop such change of parliament bill for forest management, if it would have adverse effects on our lives.

    On the other hand, if this bill goes thru then people like ‘carbon cowboy’ and associates will struggle a little despite their good efforts & intentions.

    1. The PNG developer for some time has been aware of the attempt to change a certain clause in the act so RH could claim victory over Mandang Timbers, Forestry tried unlawfully to exacute this motion.
      Consquentley Mandang will start a action over Forestry and then the truth of who instructed who will be known.

      The provincial and local Governments are now up to speed on what is going on and refute any changes.
      The Incorporate Land Groups are concerned of Asians filling up the bellies of these Politicians and middle men by using thier assets and resources,
      and now are questioning previous payments for their timber and are asking for a complete audit for them personally to compare carbon trading with logging, finacially and enviromentally over 10 years.

      The bill is going nowhere and now the Asians and logging companies do not want to pay ‘slings’ so now we have politicians wondering how they can afford to compete with each other in the coming elections.
      Everything is now becoming ‘self accesible’ and its becoming harder to tell lies and corrupt the system in PNG politics.

      A original saying from your CC,”Never f–k with an honest man’

  14. Hi greenie cap.

    Whatever happened to the web site “Masalai i Tokaut” which was exposing Government corruption in the logging business? I heard some of the people involved received death threats. It was posting convincing proof of corruption, especially involving Pruaitch and RH, and got the Government scared enough to denounce hem as “terrorists”. They stopped publishing in 2007.

    1. Yes Peter,
      thank you for this information.
      Corruption from Forestry has been exposed for a long time now, the problem is that nobody has used the exposure to irradicate the adiction aquired by these Ministers , Members and others.
      Easy money is the same as a drug addict needing more drugs so threats of death etc are what you would expect from this mentality.

      I would like to add Peter I have heard plenty of Journo’s have been threaten with death and are being watch carefully by loggging companies and associates.
      The PNG developer and his family and their associates have planned these issues very carefully and have an undertaking to use any ‘formal’ threat as a reason to retaliate at the highest level to declare a example of legal and military experience.
      Logging is destructive and irresponsable and is hurting the people of the forest areas in many ways.

  15. Thank you and I guess Dr Scotsman would have been the one ducking and weaving from the threats.
    You would think the Australian Government would have step up to plate in those days to help, as his reseach was contracted by CSIRO through the UPNG.
    The only way to deter threats and forest mutilation is for the boss to finish these projects and bring to PNG a return to balance the criticism and the untruths that pro logging and rotten media suggests.
    PNG people will then trust the Voluntary carbon trading concepts of their own Induvidual Incorporations owned by the Incorporated Land Groups to manage and preserve their forests for many years on.
    It will be then the people of PNG will understand and appreciate their fantastic resource that is respected the world over.

  16. Peter/greenie cap,

    Interesting dissection and discussion on the logging industry in PNG.

    While we can agree and disagree on a number of things in respect of carbon trading, one thing we will all agree on is that logging industry in PNG is simply corrupt and rotten to the bones.

    The Malaysian Mongrel that is Rimbunan Hijau came here with resolve and purpose to kill this country. Look how quickly they set up The National newspaper as their propaganda tool once on the ground.

    And look at how quickly they’ve corrupted the system to go on a land grab of astronomic proportions in Moresby to quickly diversify out of logging and into property to reduce their exposure to an industry they’ve already raped. Not only that, they are also poised to diversify into merchandising big time when their vision city project is completed.

    These guys are shamelessly benefiting from their corrupt dealings in PNG. They’ve threatened and shut up a few for a while. But rest assured the table will turn on them and their corrupt political cronies in the not too distant future!

  17. One issue that I don’t think has been raised here is the destructive effect of oil palm plantations. In Indonesia and PNG old-growth forests are being clear-felled to make way for oil-palm plantations, and many large international companies are moving in on the act eg. in Oro, Morobe, WNB and NI.

    The scary thing is that some countries are pushing for oil palm plantations to be classified as “forests” so they can be included in REDD schemes and gain carbon credits (see below).

    Oil palm plantations are a highly intensive form of agriculture – actually a monoculture. This reduces ecological diversity, adversely affecting native plants and animals which local people are dependent upon. They also make extensive use of pesticides which leach into surrounding lands and pollute water supplies, and they deplete the water table. Some scientists say it will take a plantation around 800 years to make up for the carbon lost when he original forests were cleared. A recent UK Government study showed that using palm oil instead of fossil fuel increase emissions by 31 per cent, failing to meet the European Commission standard of each litre of biofuel reducing emissions by 35 per cent.

    Cargill has just sold off its extensive plantations to New Britain Palm Oil amidst serious controversy over the affects of pesticides leaching into local gardens and water supplies with alleged increases in sickness and birth defects.

    What do you think?

    “Antara News, 13 March 2010 | Greenpeace activists scaled the Ministry of Forestry building in South Jakarta and unfurled a giant banner reading “Plantations are not forests”. Greenpeace feared that the inclusion of `plantations in the definition of forests, would lead to massive concealment of the ongoing emissions from peatland and forest destruction that has made Indonesia the world`s third largest emitter of greenhouse gases, according to information on the Greeanpeace Southeast Asia`s official website, Saturday. Greenpeace, along with a number of environmental and civil society organizations, have condemned the Indonesian government`s attempts to classify `plantations as forests while allowing continued destruction of critical habitats like peatland forests and the last remaining biodiversity hotspots..”

  18. And this is what can happen if you don’t have landowner rights strongly established by law. This project alone covers 4 million acres! I wonder what will happen to the local people? Modern-day serfs?

    “Indonesia to target New Guinea for agricultural expansion
    mongabay.com
    February 22, 2010

    “Indonesia will target its last frontier — its territory on New Guinea — as it seeks to become a major agricultural exporter, reports the AFP.

    In its quest to become one of the largest producers of rice, maize, sugar, coffee, shrimp, meats and palm oil, Indonesia will push development in the country’s largest remaining “wild” area: Papua, the Indonesian-held half of New Guinea.

    Expansion in Papua will begin in a 1.6 million hectare (4 million acre) area around the town of Merauke, on the southern coast of New Guinea near the border with the independent country of Papua New Guinea. The forests around Merauke will be targeted for oil palm plantations and other large-scale agriculture, creating thousands of industrial jobs and spurring a population boom, according to an Indonesian government official.

    “We chose Merauke because it’s the ideal place for food crop cultivation, such as rice, corn, soybean and sugar cane. Merauke district has 4.5 million hectares of land; 2.5 million hectares are ideal for cultivation,” Hilman Manan of the agricultural ministry told the AFP.

    “The area is flat and has a good climate. Its soil is appropriate for those crops. Sumatra is already congested with other plantations, such as palm oil, and Kalimantan is already full of mining areas and many plantation areas also.”

    Manan said the plan could more than quadruple Merauke’s population of 175,000 and trigger massive foreign investment in an otherwise “underdeveloped” region. Foreign entities would be allowed to own up to 49 percent of enterprises and would be offered “incentives like tax breaks and reductions in customs and excise duties.” Investors from Japan, South Korea and the Middle East are said to be interested. “

  19. More info on why Cargill is dumping it’s PNG pakm oil assets…

    “Cargill leaves a palm oil mess in PNG
    February 25 2010 at 4:24 PM

    posted by David Gilbert in RAN General, Rainforest Agribusiness on February 24th, 2010

    Cargill Inc., the worlds largest agribusiness company, has announced the sale of their palm oil plantations in the remote tropical nation of Papua New Guinea (PNG). Cargill owns mills and plantations in Indonesia, Malaysia, and until today, PNG, and trades palm oil globally produced by at least 25 additional palm oil producers in Indonesia and Malaysia.

    Just three months ago RAN released a case study, based on original field research carried out by RAN and the International Accountability Project, on Cargills palm oil operations in PNG. Commodity Colonialism reports that serious environmental and social issues threaten the sustainability of Cargills plantations there, with a special focus on the dangers of converting once independent and self sufficient Papuan farmers into indebted laborers through Cargills use of share cropping contracts.

    After eight years of operations in PNG, Cargill is turning their palm oil plantations over to New Britain Palm Oil, along with a range of unfilled commitments to the people and government of PNG.

    It is unclear what will become of the thousands of indebted Papuans who remain bound under contract to exclusively produced oil palm for Cargill at prices set by the company, of the polluted rivers and watersheds Cargill is leaving behind, or the roads Cargill made a commitment to build and maintain in the rugged interior.

    Cargill did not return RANs request for official comment but insiders point to the strong criticisms of Cargills unsustainable palm oil production by customers and the media as a likely reason Cargill decided to exit the country. Recent contract cancellations against the Indonesian palm oil producer Sinar Mas, Cargills single-largest palm oil supplier, have led to questions of Cargills support of, and profits from, rainforest destruction in neighboring Indonesia.

    Back in PNG, local communities have spoken out on the damaging effects palm oil production has on the farms, forests, and rivers they have depended on for tens of thousands of years for survival. The lack of Free, Prior, and Informed Consent (FPIC) in Cargills sharecropping agreements, the lack of training to use dangerous pesticides, and the use of child labor are also among the most serious concerns expressed by locals living at Cargills three PNG plantations.

    Cargills entrance into palm oil production in PNG gave rise to concerns that the company would use its financial and political influence to undermine the strict protections the constitution of PNG provides to community forests and farms through the recognition of communities customary land rights. It appears that these strict constitutional protections, which prevented Cargill from rapidly expanding its PNG plantations, played a significant role in Cargills decision to stop producing oil palm in PNG. A World Bank social impact report that noted increases of debt, prostitution, alcohol, and violence at PNGs palm oil plantation communities, providing additional reasons for Cargill to disassociate themselves with PNG palm oil.”

  20. Palm Oil plantations are another “myth” that destroys our enviroment.

    Like most CDM’s the EU and UNFCCC have buggered up everything.

    false valuations waisting money so on the list of complaints is so numerous right down to ‘how much money to the ILG’s receive’ or how much do the people working on the plantations receive for the amount of work, again apples for apples.

    I am not going to go into the complex details as their is enough information to support these comments.

    Oh I should ask everyone to investigate the “rhino beattle capabilities” to add.

  21. Just as a matter of interest, could someone update progress on carbon cowboys current status.

    Any news Mr. Greenie Cap?

  22. The last information I received was that the process of verification has been extremly succesfull and is nearing completion.
    Huge interest in buyer’s participation from Asia, Europe and USA, Japan now has a emission trading exchange and has adobted ‘forest credits’.
    The boss is in Europe negotiating sales and promoting PNG as well as the monitoring module expected for each project.
    http://www.carbonwontok.org keeps most of the permitted process information updated, The PNG newspaper “Post Courier” delivers the true and complete unbias facts of progress.
    Carbon Cowboys and this dub name from Conrad is now wearing thin as his confusion of information to PNG.
    Over all everybody from Nupan are excited of the International input and support of the originating and verifying process.
    The landowners of PNG are concern of the PNG Governments poor understanding of the construction of Carbon Trading.
    The ILG’s do not need interference from the PNG Government and only ask for the Government to support their endeavours to bring to PNG Incorporated Tax from the sale of their Carbon Credits.
    In a nut shell all is very well Thank you.

  23. Greenie cap,
    That sounds good. If the developed countries are cashing in then I guess the rest of PNG should join. Do you think PNG politics could interfere with in the near future, I mean this PNG, meddling in affairs of such projects that carries “cash cow” status is a norm with politicians. What’s your strongest view on this. Also PNG has no regulations to govern carbon trading. Is Nupan prepared to initiate a legislative framework for PNG if the international community is buying in, surely it is perceived legally acceptable by international laws, hence, an adopted national legislative governing the “credits, verifications” etc must be put in place.

    Just my thoughts, would love to hear your perception on these.

  24. Kafu Peg

    Difficult questions for myself to answer personally, the Boss over phone today said, you are asking questions that you know the answers.
    Well Voluntary Carbon Trading is developed form the ‘Threat’ of forests from being logged.
    In PNG the Govenment and its induviduals are now the biggest threat because its asian appointments have been exposed.
    see East Pangia and the directors of Mandang Timbers as 1 example.
    The Government threat is now a ‘risk’ which the Boss says will improve the value of the credits over time say to the second or third tier.
    Politicians need money to support their campains in PNG, asians have been a good source in the past, through other peoples forests as one to mention.
    Nupan has formulated the simple legislative framework needed for PNG and its scientists have declared that the Incorporated act for its forest Incorporations owned by its Incorporated Land Groups , is the only possible instrument that structures Carbon Trading for PNG, this instrument that will protect the forest people from Government Induviduals and illegal logging and has been tested and confirmed.
    It will be very difficult for any Government to alter this structure as the people have been informed and advised for some time now, you could say it would probably be political suicde for any politician to lobby the contray today as transparency is now creeping into PNG through this process.

    Voluntary Carbon Trading is governed by its process which the validation confirms for and behalf of the forest owners and the buyers of the credits.

    The Government will in return receive its due Incorporated tax annually from the sales of credits.
    The Incorporations through their Boards, if agreed ,will support their Governors and Members with Political donations which of course should be a tax incentive to the forest Incorporations.
    The Boss says, step by step kafu peg.

  25. Greenie Cap,
    Thanks and I agree that reports on Asian logging companies associating themselves with PNG politics is now worry. Thursday (8/4/2010) EMTV news saw Forest Minister Belden Nama & his office bearers voicing out strongly in a press release news that the amendment to forestry act is for the benefit of this nation. I disagree because with centralising of powers attracts corruption, decentralised powers is more favourable in that it is a shared responsibility and provides check & balance to decisions & actions top down or vice versa.

    Anyway, its good to note that the structure Nupan is setting up is transparent and less susceptible to corrupt politicians. I guess it would be a system that protects and work for itself, much more like the big corporate organisations.

    About the benefits of carbon trading, there is no doubt it will be multiple. Saving forest plus empowering the “hauslain manmeri”, right to the grassroots level. Hope to hear more & visit your website.

    1. Hi Kafu,

      check out the following article (two quotes below) from this website.

      Don’t start spending any money yet.
      __________________________

      http://www.probeinternational.org/node/7086

      Another alleged scam unearthed in the carbon markets

      Carbon markets are again facing allegations of a scam involving the trading of carbon credits. Reuters reports the Australian company WesternField Holdings Inc. has been accused of defrauding investors down under of A$3.5 million ($3.2 million) through a telemarketing swindle. Although blacklisted by the country’s securities regulator, the firm continues to operate.

      ——– and —–

      Patrica Adams, Probe International’s executive director, describes carbon markets as “political constructs controlled by politically empowered regulators who will be gatekeepers to a multi-trillion dollar market. The regulators themselves would become too numerous to regulate.”

      “This then becomes the tried and true recipe for good old fashioned and widespread corruption.”

      The Wall Street Journal appears to agree. A recent op-ed concluded that a fresh scandal in the European carbon market could be read as a “cautionary tale in how quickly environmental policy engineering degrades into rent-seeking for the fortunate few.”

  26. Thanks Paul,
    This news article does give alot of insights to the carbon trade subject, VCS etc.. It does seem that “environmental policy engineering degrades into rent-seeking for the fortunate few”.

    Its interesting to learn that there is a world body on voluntary carbon standard, the VCS Association that registers and monitors all organisations that have undertaken VCS projects.

    Greenie cap, Is Nupan Ltd registered to this VCS regulating body? It is clear in this article that those who consider themselves experts can also be cunning at the expense of unsuspecting minds. Its an unfortunate that investors have lost money with such trickery on carbon trading. I guess this bad news for carbon trade as many investors will now scrutinise their investments in this emerging commodity.

    For PNG, I see no option for saving forest unless we take up carbon trading. The reason is because of greed and corruption with people in power. YUS area in Morobe Prov is the only one in entire country that has opted for conservation, the rest of the country is chasing monetary values.

  27. It is just early stages yet for carbon trading but already there are many out there in this world that are already playing the systems to their gain. Once a carbon credit is sold, can it be resold again? or can one buy extra & sell? Is it target sold to corporates firms only or traded as stock trading for any Tom Dick & Harry?

  28. Well, according to the PC, the battle lines have been drawn by none other than Tim Tepi. It will be interesting to see how the government and the forestry industry handles this show of indifference.
    __________________________

    PC Friday 8 Apr 10

    Tribes snub logging bid

    By PETER KORUGL

    Resource owners at East Pangia, Southern Highlands Province told representatives from Madang Timbers and the National Forest Authority to leave, when they went in to discuss logging with them.
    According to the chairman of the Tiyebo and Associate Tribes of East Pangia Limited, Timothy Tepi, the officials went in on March 22 with the escort of more than eight policemen from Mt Hagen.
    He said they tried to talk to the people but they were unsuccessful and had to return because the resource owners wanted to develop carbon trading on their land.
    “They have waited for 17 years and no tangible development was seen in the area from logging. The people want to preserve their forest for their future generations because they know that the world is facing global warming.
    “People want their vast forest never to be logged and they are supporting carbon trade through Tiyebo and Associate Tribes of East Pangia Limited and Nupan Trading Corporation Limited,” Mr Tepi said from Pangia yesterday.
    He said the people would be actively saving the pristine tropical rainforests of PNG to assist in mitigating climate change and also to fulfill their social and moral obligations to offset carbon footprint
    Mr Tepi said the people also want to live a better life, eat better food and create a better environment for themselves where they can get clean safe water from their forest.
    “We want money to pay for the education of our children, money to improve our infrastructure, the health of our people, financial security, and social and political stability in Pangia,” Mr Tepi said.
    Mr Tepi said PNG was on the threshold of earning new money from the carbon offsetted from its forest as scientists employed by Nupan (PNG) Trading Corporation were travelling to Europe, USA and Japan to talk to potential buyers.
    He said it was time the Government clear its stand on voluntary carbon trading as it also stood to gain a lot of money from taxes that the projects would generate.

  29. Hello all,
    PNG,s biggest problem in the carbon trading business is Kevin Conrad.
    Kevin Conrad is taking money apparently millions from companies and crooked NGO’s to save the rain forests of PNG.
    Mind you under the eye of International Transparency , UNFCCC and World Bank induviduals etc.
    Kevin Conrad has been exposed on several roits in and out of PNG and the self appointed Ambassador for Climate Change is now on the hit list of every forest owner in PNG.
    The people of PNG and the PNG developer were shocked to be told this information last week from Washington US and are expecting more information from an audit of Conrad’s and any other participants bank accounts.
    Evidence has now started this process.

  30. Paul,
    I was wondering if “Probe International” had any idea of the antics of Conrad.
    All maybe that is not their position to probe the real issues in carbon trading .

    The first question we should ask,

    Why are the large International Companies and NGO’s of the world giving money to Conrad?
    How can Conrad save a rain forest?
    Has Conrad convinced the world that through some part of the PNG Government he can control Land Tenure in PNG?

    The Boss laughs and saids it reminds him of the old cowboy movies were the “cattle russlers” always get caught and hung.

      1. FYI Probe International were contacted by a PNG Forest Chairman regarding the actions of this Kevin Conrad proclaiming to save PNG rainforests and asking NGO’s and International Companies to contribute to his cause as well as receiving large amounts of Kina from the PNG Government.
        Probe International returned the inquire by email and simply said they did not know who Kevin Conrad was and had no idea of his antics.

        Every one laughed of the responce , and returned the email and asked ‘Probe International’ if they had ever thought of using ‘google’
        again Paul this Probe International must just be another bedroom bloger like you, and as we thought and stated is found wanting.

  31. Thank you Paul for your understanding,
    It is funny how you are such an authority on anything and everything and re hash any rubbish from any news article from anywhere,but when a simple truthful lead is offered you fall in a heap.
    Never or less the evidence of the transactions mentioned will be offered to the media for you to rehash soon.I wonder if probe international will be of any use.
    A forest chairman has emailed Probe International for their support to investigate Kevin Conrad.

    It will be interesting to see if they are found wanting to.

  32. I wants wold independents teams to investigates to Kevin Conrad because we are the east Pangia resources owners have not given him any POA to act for the resource owners and we only given POA to Nupan PNG Trading Corporations Limited through Roberts Kirks Williams for carbon trading .

    many thanks
    tiyebo

  33. The Australian government has decided to shelve the Emissions Trading Scheme. It appears that people have seen through the political rhetoric and are now starting to wonder why Australians would want to pay huge amounts more for electricity (and the flow on effect to every other staple of life), when no one else wants to.

    So where does that leave Greenie Cap and Tim? Where does it leave those PNG people who were caught up in a web of your hype and hyperbole?

    The silence is deafening you blokes.

  34. Paul ,
    The Australian Government can not afford an ETS as the labour party needs the big polluters support to survive. Dudd(Rudd) stuffed up everything and thank god the boss put a stop to his planned land grab of PNG forests.If you remember had the Greens not supported labour, Rudd and his crew would not be wasteing Australias revenue as we speak. Oh I wonder what will be the end return on the Australian health system while this idiot is allowed to march around as a Australian PM.
    Yes the bottom line is that Australians will have to pay much larger prices for their electricity and just about everything else when the obligation to the enviroment is met under its present structure.If Australia acts and diverts to the future and uses enviromental friendly alternatives which are feasable and avalible , obolish its tax system which just does not work, because of its small population(which if you remember Paul is a key issue) can then structure its self to a safe future with comfort.It also will mean that Australians would be able to afford to contribute to preserving PNG rainforests from being destroyed which in return will help the balance of the atmosphere in our part of the world.
    However,on the commercial note Australia or Australian companies were never ever considered and still are not considered as buyers of PNG carbon credits , although there is so many inquires tens of thousands weekly in fact from concerned Australians wanting to participate. see http://www.carbonowontok.org ….. carbon credits
    I am told to ask.
    Paul how high are the poppies on your side of the fence?

  35. Greenie Cap,

    considering that I’m not the one sticking my head up and promising money to others under at this stage unproven results, I suggest the poppies on my side of the fence are considerably less high profile than yours.

  36. Again nobody has promised money to anyone ever, other than the media hype and over valued expectations to sell news from you and your journalist mates , however a calculated return from a stringent validated methodology of verified algorithm’s to quantify and access the individual forest owners forest capacity has been consulted to the forest owners for the last 3 years.

    unproven results’ is your only escape here , but sorry we are positive of success and have no concern of your pathetic comments.

    Its good to know Paul your typical Australian tyre kicking attitude will never change even when you will have to eat your own words, the boss said you are in the category of a public nuisance.

  37. Greenie cap, you sir are an idiot. The labour party were the ones proposing an ETS with the support of the big polluters. The Greens joined the liberals to block it in the senate. This ETS if passed would have in fact provided a market for PNG forest credits. How exactly did the boss stop a land grab. Isn’t he conducting one of his own? Tens of thousands of enquiries a week? My arse!

    1. does dh stand for the proverbial Richard head by any chance.

      the only idiot is you DH.

      What ETS proposal did the Labour Party and the big polluters promise stupid did you understand their proposals terms and conditions, you are another DH shooting from the hip.Do you think the big polluters want to compensate anything.
      The reason Liberal and the greens opposed it was because of ‘ALL’ the tax changes and chargers that was being put on all you simple minded Australian tax payers, and Dudd and Penny have absolutely no idea in what to do next.Similar to giving strawberries to pigs.
      The only PNG carbon credit market it would have created was simply a added aid scenario like the one PNG has now DH, and do you really want an accurate status report on that.
      Australia’s motto keep them (png)under the thumb and the best way to do that is to continue the missionary charity mentality DH.
      The PNG forests are owned by the ILG’S who have contracted Nupan company to company to return them the best possible yield in the most realalistic way.

      The PNG and Australian government, UNFCC , World Bank or any other identity has no land tenure hold on the forest peoples of PNG assets.
      Regarding your arse, don’t fall off it because you are drinking to much of your Coonawarra red DH.
      Do yourself a favour and google ‘Bigalow Corporation’ Queensland and understand this scenario being eyed for PNG. DH.

  38. Greenie Cap,

    any reasonable person should be addressing the central issue of how to help the PNG people who may be fortunate to possess a valuable resource and wish to preserve it while still obtaining a financial benefit. Free handouts never helped anyone in the long term.

    Name calling and accusations are at best counter productive.

    During our many e mailed ‘discussions’ on this and other blogs, it is clear that PNG forest owners find themselves caught between a promised short term, cash in hand ‘giaman’ benefits from the timber industry who then disappear with the timber and promised long term benefits from people like yourself who have yet to produce anything except promises.

    One thing is clear. On the Southern side of the Torres Strait you have people who have been told they now must pay more for using their own resources. On the Northern side of the Strait, you have a few of the people that have been told they will be paid to look after their trees with the extra tax their neighbour’s have been asked to pay on their own products in order to live.

    In the middle of this situation arrives a ‘knight’ in shinning amour who ‘out of the goodness of his heart’, promises to arrange for this wonderful transaction to take place. He’s not in it for the money you understand, but only to help others. All he is asking us to do is trust him! After all, that’s all we can do since we haven’t been given any clear details in how all this will be done.

    Wow! What a wonderful world it is when people like this show up and offer their services. For some strange reason however, the PNG government appears to be missing for this simple equation. Obviously a minor oversight on someone’s part although it does beg the question ‘why’?

    In the meanwhile, the main producers of the world’s problem have categorically said they won’t be changing their ways any time soon.

    Ol pipol isave long husat imauswara na husat itok stret, laga.

  39. Paul,
    my old sparring partner I do respect a lot of your comments especially on the blogs that are not involved with carbon trading, but your Australian negative comments are sometimes annoying and probably I am not the right person for this job, but I was chosen because of my honest approach to life in general, which when i look back could be a curse.
    Any way chin up and where are we,,, in fact to add the only comment that brings to mind with you that I really respect is ‘population’, indepth subject.
    Australia has only 20 + MILLION and PNG5+MILLION which is a positive and then a negative.
    The negative is Australia is one of the largest contributors to atmospheric pollution on the planet especially per capita although could be in general.The positive is their is only 20+m reasons in Australia and 5+m in PNG to be responsible for, this is achievable.

    getting on with it.

    Remember how long the fish was when it was first caught to when it was cooked.(and then eaten)

    that is the answer to your elaborate last blog

    however in country.

    Some of the PNG government thinks it has its own agenda the PM is punting on his daughter and Kevin Conrad, but he is not really sure.He knows Rudd can go no where.He is waiting for performance and knows the boss is leading the charge.
    As the boss has always said he represents the IL G’s rain forests and once carbon credits(VCU,voluntary carbon units) are registered then the main producers of pollution ‘anywhere in the world’ they will have no choice as to trade this legitimate tendered instrument because renewables and CE R’s will then become nearly obsolete and at least as we see it something will been done properly for once and formulating a benchmark to obey for the good of the planet and especially for the people living in the Southern Hemisphere.
    So regarding to the shinning Knight comment or should it still be ‘Carbon Cowboy or Carbon Crusader’ In general try and understand the balance of the Environment and the Anthropology studies being put into a commercialising opportunity to benefit firstly the extreme bio diversity threatened, the people who belong to it and then the revenue that will return to the PNG government in a transparent action.
    The latter…….. transparent revenue to the government’ by the way of Incorporated tax, dwell and discus on that one please Paul as this is now the right time.

  40. In regard to the often touted Australian situation where we are constantly being told we are the worse polluters per capita, you are probably right. But then who really knows since who actually puts the figures together?

    Our logistical and infrastructure base is another aspect that no one appears to want to build into the equation. We are a large continent with poorly designed and an under utilised public transport system together with governments that haven’t bothered to look ahead. Add to that the enormous amounts of coal and natural gas that until recently were not looked on with any disgust and you get a recipe for our current dilemma. Should people, who didn’t create the problem, pay for it to be fixed? Who else will but as you and I know, reality is that the extra tax monies reaped by the government is NEVER going to be spent on fixing the problem. Try explaining the situtation to the poor old pensioner who has no alternative and depends on electricity to heat their room in winter, cook their food and light up their room and tv.

    The non political solution was to build nuclear power stations but poor old Gorton was squashed on that one and no one else wants to be the first to raise the issue again. Who is to blame?

    If you can design a system whereby you could have delivered the taxes that people down here were supposed to pay on top of their power supplies and get these monies to the PNG forest owners, as I have said before, ‘Good luck to you”.

    Reality suggests that the governments of any country involved will get their sticky fingers into the funds and all you will be offered is a percentage, if you are lucky. In addition, you are I both know what will happen when any funds end up in the PNG villages. Easy money means no incentive. In addition, no one will be able to police the non felling of their trees when some foreign timber company comes along with ‘gris moni’ and winkles its way into the decision making pot. However, if you can overcome this usual scenario, again I say good luck to you.

    Call it what you will, what you haven’t yet expunged is my cynicism over how you are going to overcome the above problems. I have personally seen first hand how many others have either intentionally or unintentionally misled the PNG people, especially at the village level.

    If however you can overcome these negative aspects, again, I take my hat off to you.

  41. Logical come backs thank you Paul, with only a touch of a negative attitude , which makes it much better to talk with you.
    Believe it or not the Boss employees in his organisation some of the most intelligent experienced educated people on the planet some very acute problem solvers.
    As you can appreciate he is very well connected and has always been associated for a long time with people who think out of the square globally.

    Remember per capita could be in general and this complete audit is one of Australia’s denials.

    The Tax system is not the right mechanism for Australia or PNG and must be or proberly will be changed.

    Nuclear is lazy and a given for disaster, Australia or any were else on the Planet is not competent to even consider this as a solution.

    In PNG’s case the Government has no entitlement to forest owners revenue, other than the Incorporated tax legislation requirement, which of course in return would be offset.

    Easy money’ is a good point and is so important and will be many serious discussions in the near future, it has been studied for some time as have every return and distribution of every logging project in PNG’s history.Statistics here are alarming.

    I hope you have hair on your head.

  42. Conrad accuses Australia and others of “cartbon fraud”.

    I think he has a valid point, but the same applies to PNG forests used as carbon credits. If western pollters merely buy credits for PNG forests to offset their pollution there has been no net reduction in carbon emmissions at all. In fact there could be an increase.

    But doesn’t this put the whole idea of REDD scheme carbon credits at risk? Where does this leave NUPAN and their voluntary agreements with landowners which have no statutory foundation?

    Sounds like sky money might be flying away.

    Australia, other rich nations accused of ‘climate fraud’
    June 2, 2010 – 2:34PM

    Papua New Guinea is among developing countries that may veto a plan at United Nations talks by nations including Australia to count carbon dioxide stored in vegetation such as trees as part of their emissions targets.

    Industrialised countries may overstate projected carbon emissions from logging and land use and then take credit when greenhouse-gas output falls short, said Kevin Conrad, Papua New Guinea’s lead climate negotiator. Trees absorb carbon when they grow and release it when they rot or burn.

    ”It’s climate fraud,” Mr Conrad said in an interview in Bonn where delegates are meeting to lay the framework for a climate treaty later this year. ”We’d rather have lower overall emissions cuts than dishonest numbers.”

    Billions of tons of carbon are stored in the forests of North America and Russia as well as in peat bogs, cropland and other areas across Australia, New Zealand and Europe. By including such CO2 in targets, industrialised nations may be able burn more fossil fuels and possibly buy fewer emission permits earned by developing countries for windmills, solar panels and protecting forests.

    The plan may improve those countries’ abilities to claim they are tackling climate change without having to cut the use of coal, oil and natural gas, said Paul Winn, a forestry adviser at Greenpeace who’s following the talks. American Electric Power and Germany’s RWE are among the utilities that may benefit by paying less for emissions permits.

    Copenhagen muffin

    If no ”acceptable” changes are made representatives from developing nations will ask that emissions from land use not be counted in targets, Conrad said. The UN talks require consensus before proposals are accepted in any possible global deal.

    The chairman of the Kyoto Protocol track of the climate talks targeted this month’s talks in Bonn to reach agreement on land-use changes and forests in industrialized countries. That’s probably ”unrealistic,” said Chris Henschel, a manager at the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society.

    Negotiators from 185 countries are in Bonn this week to hammer out differences between developing and industrialised countries over how much to reduce greenhouse gases and who should pay. Negotiators at a conference last year in Copenhagen failed to deliver a global agreement to replace the Kyoto Protocol that expires in 2012.

    ”The three layers of the cake collapsed and we were left with a muffin” at Copenhagen, said Yvo de Boer, the UN’s climate chief.

    Under the forestry and land-use proposal, industrialised nations would be effectively be credited with about 400 megatons of CO2 they wouldn’t have cut from fossil fuel consumption, Winn said. That’s worth 6 billion euros ($8 billion) based on today’s price for EU allowances for December delivery of about 15 euros a ton.

    US forests absorb the equivalent of about 10 per cent of the country’s entire output from the use of fuels such as coal. Most of Australia’s planned emissions reductions could be accounted for by including the proposal, Winn said.

    ”These countries are not willing to account for their actual emissions that the atmosphere sees,” he said.

    Fires in 2003 in Australia released some 200 megatons of CO2, about four times the annual absorption rate, Greenpeace’s Winn said. Such emissions wouldn’t be counted under the proposals by Canada, Australia and others because they’re demanding that CO2 emissions due to natural disasters such as fires or beetle infestations not be counted.

    Bloomberg News

  43. Conrad does have a point, but it is old news and all the smart money was on to this before Copenhagen, to add Conrad is simply ‘grandstanding’.
    His biggest problem is there is no ‘free’ money and his information to PNG is incorrect,
    so he can not deliver which is turning this ‘rainforest coalition’ around in circles and now watch them start stabbing each other in the back. Lets be realalistic how would PNG pay back a soft loan?
    Do you understand the terms and conditions set forward between Norway and Indonesia.
    Would Norway offer this deal to PNG? they had their chance.

    Wait for the next statement ,from the PM of PNG!!! this week.

    Understand Nupan’s policy is simply to prevent forests and bio-diversity in its contracted forest areas from being destroy.
    reason because Nupan understands the essentials of the enviroment and the balance of nature for the people living within these elements.

    The argeements with Nupan and its contracted landowners are the most powerful contracts and have every statutdory foundation because the ILG’s own the forests, and that area of forest has been passed on to their Power of Attorney to create carbon credits.

    Imagine the forests and bio-diversity absent from the planet or replaced by palm oil plantations for example.

    REDD or REDD+ is not what Nupan represents as it has NO possibility in PNG at this point of time or for many years on, if it can last the test of time.
    Again if you take the time to visit http://www.carbonowontok.org or the VCS and CCBA websites you would then understand the process of validation created by Nupan for the required validated standards.
    Sky money and Carbon Cowboys are promoted and invented by the media tyre kickers and people ill informing the people of PNG of billions of US dollars to come for free.
    The rest of your cut and paste article simply states the opposite.

  44. Serious questions have been again raised about Nupan’s activities in PNG. These include falsely claiming certification of VCS and CCBA schemes, inaccurate (or possibly false) representation of letters from official organizations, offering carbon credit offsets without due process, and misleadingly using logos from official organisations against their terms of use.

    http://www.redd-monitor.org/2010/07/08/nupans-forest-carbon-trading-saga-continues-in-papua-new-guinea/

  45. Read the last sentence of the REDD Monitor article Peter, then go and put your dress back on.

    or logos etc will be back up on the page http://www.carbonowontok.org after some more verifying is completed.

    are you making claim that the VCS letter is false?

    There has never been a claim of final ‘validation” Peter false and inaccurate blogging again.

  46. Carbon Planet go pinis

    Adelaide carbon management company Carbon Planet in administration

    * Meredith Booth
    * From: The Advertiser

    ADMINISTRATORS have been called in to 10-year-old Adelaide carbon management company Carbon Planet, which has $5 million in debts and about 15 staff.

    KordaMentha Adelaide partner Stephen Duncan said directors had called him in to help revive the business with talks “in train” with a potential investor to recapitalise the business as a going concern.

    “We’re working through the options on the table to really put the plan in place. We need to make sure we maintain value,” Mr Duncan said.

    Chief executive Dr Ross Williams and executive director Jim Johnson had contributed more than half of the $15 million invested in the company over recent years, he said.

    They have blamed the Federal Government’s decision to abandon the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme until 2013 and the global financial crisis for its trading trouble.

    “The carbon business was one of the industries worst hit by the Global Financial Crisis, making it very difficult to attract investment capital in the Australian climate change industry generally,” Mr Johnson said.

    Mr Duncan said his priority was to investigate Carbon Planet’s position as an originator and trader of carbon credits and as an audit and advisory firm for companies looking to offset and reduce their carbon emissions.

    The North Terrace-based business had ambitions to list on the Australian Securities Exchange in 2009 but merger talks with Melbourne-based investor m2m Corporation to create a $117 million public entity broke down late last year.

    It also created controversy in September 2009, when it was reportedly swept up in a $100 million trading scandal in Papua New Guinea which led to the removal of the head of the country’s Office of Climate Change.

  47. One must practice the comic scripts beforehand at home.

    Unfortunately Nora Ephron recently passed away, but she left us
    with some of our most endearing romantic
    comedies of all time — from “When Harry Met Sally” to “Sleepless in Seattle” and “You’ve got Mail. Brad Garret is a stand-up comedian but also well known for his acting career.

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